Consult for a solar investment calculation #136

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rasmus · 2025-01-01T11:23:19Z

rasmus commented

2025-01-01 11:23:19 +00:00

The building is not owned. Any permanent installation / investment to the 'foreign' building would in theory become an asset to the building. Yes, hardware could be removed, depending on the agreement.

Assuming the building owner agrees, what would be the cost of hardware and installation? Even if everything is not owned, the investment might be worth it (and possibly, even co-funded with Tehnopol).

The goal is to bring down the electricity bill of the server room. We don't have to do all racks (at least in one go).

Are there any partners to be found via Tehnopol (not themselves) with their green projects.
Likely, all the available power will be consumed on the spot.
- If this is untrue, how does disabling the panels work? Can we get away without a backselling contract / paperwork?
How does this all work with UPSes? Are they part of the solar installation or is it reasonable to have batteries on the solar install side, and lose UPSes?
What does it look like integrating with upstream AC? What are the changes to the mains?
Last month the power draw was 4.73 MWh. Year-around statistics need to be compiled. The project may be built out in stages (for cashflow and verified reinvesting). What capacity should there be?

The building is not owned. Any permanent installation / investment to the 'foreign' building would in theory become an asset to the building. Yes, hardware could be removed, depending on the agreement. Assuming the building owner agrees, what would be the cost of hardware and installation? Even if everything is not owned, the investment might be worth it (and possibly, even co-funded with Tehnopol). The goal is to bring down the electricity bill of the server room. We don't have to do all racks (at least in one go). - Are there any partners to be found via Tehnopol (not themselves) with their green projects. - Likely, all the available power will be consumed on the spot. - If this is untrue, how does disabling the panels work? Can we get away without a backselling contract / paperwork? - How does this all work with UPSes? Are they part of the solar installation or is it reasonable to have batteries on the solar install side, and lose UPSes? - What does it look like integrating with upstream AC? What are the changes to the mains? - Last month the power draw was 4.73 MWh. Year-around statistics need to be compiled. The project may be built out in stages (for cashflow and verified reinvesting). What capacity should there be?

rasmus added the server-room label 2025-01-01 11:23:19 +00:00

rasmus added this to the k-space.ee/todo project 2025-01-01 11:23:19 +00:00

rasmus changed title from ~~Calculate solar investment possibility~~ to Consult for a solar investment calculation

2025-01-01 11:23:36 +00:00

rasmus referenced this issue

2025-04-15 17:23:26 +00:00

Kitchen table lamp is blank #171

rasmus commented

2025-12-28 17:32:56 +00:00

https://k-space-ee.slack.com/archives/CDL9H8Q9W/p1766571457645349

m: does k-space currently have solar panels or some form of energy storage beyond server room ups-es
m: solar panels and hvac/cooling in the summer might make some sense
m: mFRR with battery might be another option to offset the electricity costs in 10y timeframe
m: battery needs a fireproof room or sealed box eg on the roof
r: The board felt categorically against investing in a place/thing you don't own.
r: As server room load is constant, my personal opinion is that it might still be worth it to pay, at least partially, for the installation. No batteries, no selling to the grid. If due to an outage, production exceeds consumption, turn the panels off.https://git.k-space.ee/k-space/todo/issues/136
m: back of a napkin calculations gave about 20kW of solar panels and 100kWh battery for 3.5kW constant load with some headroom. with mFRR and reduction of current energy cost it would pay for itself in about 6 years
m: batteries come in rack form eg https://energiakaubamaja.ee/toode/oliter-105kwh-lifepo4-akukomplekt-ip20/
r: realistically the project has been shut down multiple times due to investing in not-owned infrastructure, and justifying/finding the budget for the investment
r: batteries are most of the cost in a PV system, they are reasonable if you want to sell back to the grid
r: PV installations are the most reasonable when you consume the power on-location
r: selling back to the grid is also a bureaucratic headache (probably for ErkiN included), utilities are managed by Tehnopol, who have a bulk contract for buying in electricity (edited) 
r: I still stand by my point of doing direct and small. No selling to the grid, and consume (lower grid usage) without battery storage. Last month was 4,1 MWh, meaning there'd be interest in up to 5 kWh panels. When sun doesn't shine, electricity is bought in from the grid, as is currently.
r: The investment RoI maximum is ~600€/mo, which is the electricity bill currently.
r: If a 2-4 kWH installation saves 100-200€ and pays for itself in 3 years, after 3 years, there is a non-negotiable budget (of 100-200€/mo) for scaling it up
r: More batteries in a permanent installation also needs much stricter permits and fire audits (which are not trivial administratively even today).
r: If phase 1-2 solar installation has proven itself in production, only then would considering batteries be reasonable.
r: The batteries in a rack are advertised as 23k€, K-SPACE has less on the banksheet, including operating funds.
m: ok, starting small with solar only sounds reasonable

https://k-space-ee.slack.com/archives/CDL9H8Q9W/p1766571457645349 ``` m: does k-space currently have solar panels or some form of energy storage beyond server room ups-es m: solar panels and hvac/cooling in the summer might make some sense m: mFRR with battery might be another option to offset the electricity costs in 10y timeframe m: battery needs a fireproof room or sealed box eg on the roof r: The board felt categorically against investing in a place/thing you don't own. r: As server room load is constant, my personal opinion is that it might still be worth it to pay, at least partially, for the installation. No batteries, no selling to the grid. If due to an outage, production exceeds consumption, turn the panels off.https://git.k-space.ee/k-space/todo/issues/136 m: back of a napkin calculations gave about 20kW of solar panels and 100kWh battery for 3.5kW constant load with some headroom. with mFRR and reduction of current energy cost it would pay for itself in about 6 years m: batteries come in rack form eg https://energiakaubamaja.ee/toode/oliter-105kwh-lifepo4-akukomplekt-ip20/ r: realistically the project has been shut down multiple times due to investing in not-owned infrastructure, and justifying/finding the budget for the investment r: batteries are most of the cost in a PV system, they are reasonable if you want to sell back to the grid r: PV installations are the most reasonable when you consume the power on-location r: selling back to the grid is also a bureaucratic headache (probably for ErkiN included), utilities are managed by Tehnopol, who have a bulk contract for buying in electricity (edited) r: I still stand by my point of doing direct and small. No selling to the grid, and consume (lower grid usage) without battery storage. Last month was 4,1 MWh, meaning there'd be interest in up to 5 kWh panels. When sun doesn't shine, electricity is bought in from the grid, as is currently. r: The investment RoI maximum is ~600€/mo, which is the electricity bill currently. r: If a 2-4 kWH installation saves 100-200€ and pays for itself in 3 years, after 3 years, there is a non-negotiable budget (of 100-200€/mo) for scaling it up r: More batteries in a permanent installation also needs much stricter permits and fire audits (which are not trivial administratively even today). r: If phase 1-2 solar installation has proven itself in production, only then would considering batteries be reasonable. r: The batteries in a rack are advertised as 23k€, K-SPACE has less on the banksheet, including operating funds. m: ok, starting small with solar only sounds reasonable ```

martinl commented

2026-01-08 20:44:58 +00:00

I think we could schdule meeting with Tehnopol to see if the have any plans for the whole building and then ask about installing solar panels on the roof. I checked the roof from google maps and it seems quite empty for now. Also, finding more interested tenants might bring down the installation costs if more panels and multiple inverters are installed in one go.

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Reference: k-space/todo#136